Yesterday I was toward the end of a seven mile run when I ran past two Ron Paul supporters -- a man and a woman -- holding signs up for passing cars. So I stopped to engage them. Here is a transcript of the exchange:ME: "Ron Paul wants to seal the border with Mexico, right?"
WOMAN (enthusiastically): "Yes!"
ME: Is he a racist?
WOMAN: No, not at all.
ME: "So he supports sealing the border with Canada too?"
WOMAN (raised voice): "I am just practicing my right to free speech!"
ME: "Yes you are. But Ron Paul's position isn't logical...."
MAN (screaming): "NEO-CON!"
ME: "Actually I tend to vote Democratic and support bringing the troops home...."
MAN: "SOCIALIST! COMMUNIST!"
ME (calmly): "...but on economic issues I am more libertarian...."
MAN (screaming): "FASCIST!"
WOMAN (screaming): "WHERE DO YOU GET OFF JUST RUNNING PAST US ASKING QUESTIONS?!"
ME (confused, but calm): "A word of advice..."
WOMAN (screaming over MAN): [unintelligible]
ME (calmly): "A word of advice..."
MAN (screaming over WOMAN): [unintelligible]
ME (calmly): "A word of advice.... You won't gain supporters by screaming at them."
WOMAN (screaming over MAN): [unintelligible]
MAN (screaming over WOMAN): [unintelligible]
ME (raised voice): "You two are definitely representing Ron Paul well. The three of you are all whacked!"
As I ran along the rest of my route I could hear fading screams of "Fascist!" "Communist!" "Socialist!"
I am sure there will be some Ron Paul supporters that read this exchange and claim that these two crazies do not represent their candidate. However, my hunch is that they do so very very well.
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15 comments:
Cool! Because I'm a Ron Paul supporter who claims that those crazies don't exist.
Sealing the border is racism?
What part of ILLEGAL Immigration do you not understand? I Love when people come here, and become citzens and cry after being sworn in as American. No better site. On the other hand it upsets me that some guy can climb a fence, and get treated better by getting social security after 18 months.
Immigration is great as long as its earned. Unless you consider avoiding detection "earning something"
Lucky I wasn't there with them. I would have called you a few names also. Dork
Oh come on. Since I've become involved with Paul's campaign, I've met hundreds of his supporters, and while you get a loony once in a while, the vast majority of them are just plain, everyday folk - going to school, going to work, trying to get by.
Anyway, since the people you met didn't answer your question properly: If we had a problem with millions and millions of Canadians coming into our country illegally, stealing social security numbers and committing other kinds of identity theft, receiving free services and burdening our already stressed welfare and health care systems, overcrowding our public schools, having high rates of crime, gang-related violence, rape, child molestation and drug offenses, I would be calling for the border with Canada to be sealed as well. But we don't have those problems with Canadians.
A number of different studies have found that there is no causal relationship between immigration and crime. Quite the opposite: these studies show that border states have lower crime rates than non-border states.
The subject of Ron Paul's racist and extremist views have been well-documented elsewhere. Tell me, are you open-minded enough to admit you are wrong about the man?
These two were obnoxious, insulting and annoying, that is not a synonym for crazy. Gee it would be nice to read a progressive blog that didn't insult people with actual mental illness as a matter of course. Are you thinking we don't have enough prejudice and indeed mass hysteria about people with mental illness in this state at this time?
http://hymes.wordpress.com
Alison:
I appreciate your advocacy for the mentally ill, and no insult was intended. "Crazy" has many definitions, most of which DO describe the two Ron Paul supporters I met.
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/border-security-and-immigration-reform/
Hardly sounds like a racist to me. Either this entire story is made up, or the two "supporters" are crazy.
Ron Paul is NOT crazy. He's the only candidate from ANY party that makes an attempt to actually follow the Constitution.
Yeah, he's nuts. Favors property rights, privacy, civil liberties, against unjustified wars, wants to secure or borders, and strives to preserve American sovereignty.
Yes, he's crazy. Or NOT.
I don't know much about Ron Paul. But I figured I'd chime in to point out the one huge difference between the U.S/Mexican border and the U.S/Canadian border. Unlike Mexico- the Canadian government co-operates with the United States in the policing of our shared border. The Mexican Government does not. Additionally while the U.S./Mexican border is shorter than the U.S./Canadian border far more people come through our southern borders than the northern one.
I'm not sure that this comment thread is the best place for an immigration policy debate. The point of my post was to underscore the lunacy of the two Ron Paul supporters I met.
In my personal experience, most, if not all, anti-immigration sentiment usually boils down to racism if you push it hard enough. Why is Ron Paul talking about Mexico and not Canada? The GAO has released a report that says: "In three out of four locations on the U.S.-Canada border, investigators crossed into the United States from Canada ...to simulate the cross-border movement of radioactive materials."
So you can rail away about "securing our borders" and "preserving American sovereignty" all you want. Just be honest and admit you have a double standard.
Yeah, all of the ones I have met are crazy, or just a bit "off"..
If a particular location is known for having higher rates of crime, then would it not be appropriate for police officers to locate there versus an area in which there is far, far less relative crime? Likewise, if you have the vast majority of illegal immigration coming from Mexico compared to Canada, then would it not be prudent and logical to spend more effort securing the Southern border versus the Northerner border? (Resources to secure the borders are limited and scarce. How would it not be rational to use them in an economic way?) How is this by necessity racist? Or is observing where the vast majority of illegals coming from racist? Or is observing crime rates among different groups racist? It is hard to tell anymore. If the Canada-U.S. border had the levels of illegal immigration as Mexico, then you would have a point and it -then- would be a time to discuss diverting more (scarce) resources into securing the borders there as well.
Ron Paul himself said that this country probably could take in a lot more Mexican immigrants than what we currently get if we had a genuine free market. The trouble, in his view, is that there is a massive welfare state. In my view, to think that all of this immigration does not have any kind of effect is wrongheaded.
haha great post and replies in the comment section.
Ron Paul supporters are wacky, I've thought about engaging them as well but it's probably not worth it. Your incident reveals that they are intolerant of any viewpoints other than their own, and label those who disagree with them with some evil slander. From reading their posts online, a great deal seem to have psychological issues. Who knows how crazy some of them are and what they may do in the future.
You are showing your ignorance by name calling. Whether this story is true or not it is common for Ron Paul detractors to resort to name calling. I have met the man personally and he is the most intelligent candidate that is still in the race for president. I'm willing to discuss issues. Let me ask you who is crazy?
Fact or Fiction:
Those canadians crossing our borders must be stopped. This is a tremendous problem. Why can't those canadians be more like the mexicans who stay in their own country?
Think about this:
In addition to allowing illegal immigrants to come live in our country (with benefits), who in their right mind wants to pay taxes to the IRS to support illegal immigrant when that tax money is also used to start wars in foreign countries (so Bush and friends can get rich)?
Who's crazy?
Is it those unruly Ron Paul supporters that are not so agreeable to paying taxes for unconstitutional causes? Imagine, Ron Paul supporters want to get rid of the IRS, what a crazy idea... They must be loonies... What else do these crazy Ron Paul supporters stand for? Oh yeah, they crazily believe in giving more power to the States and cutting down on big government. NO, NO, NO, they have it wrong... most politicians will tell you that the american people should be taxed into oblivion to support big government. But, these crazy Ron Paul supporters don't want to contribute to all these government programs. They must be insane!
Research Ron Paul and where he stands on the issues. He is sincere and you may learn something. Watch a YouTube video or two and you may learn something. He is the only one that truly understands what it happening to our economy and how to fix it. There are recent YouTube videos of him lecturing Bernanke with Ben conceding all of Ron's points. Watch the interview with Fox Business where they marvel at his perception...
So if you want an intelligent discussion state your points and stop the name calling. Ron Paul's revolution is a revolution of ideas. Explore his ideas and you might found out he is not as crazy as you think.
Yes, the story is true.
Paul has a lot of ideas, most of which are not worth considering. As an economic libertarian myself (though not a political one) I find much of what he advocates to be appalling, which on immigration tends to boil down to freedom for me but not for thee. He is no libertarian.
Is your claim that if government no longer redistributed income to immigrants, that immigrants wouldn't be here? Do you sincerely believe that the mass waves of European immigrants arriving at the beginning of the 1900s came for welfare?! Immigrants would still come because each has sufficient skill and ambition to profit in the American marketplace.
A libertarian professor of economics explains it better than I can here: http://www.ilw.com/articles/2008,0118-boudreaux.shtm
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